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Author Topic: MiA Round Table #2: Teching Best Practices  (Read 7917 times)

Gimpalong

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MiA Round Table #2: Teching Best Practices
« on: September 14, 2015, 10:06:09 AM »
Welcome MiA members to the second MiA Round Table! (see here for the first Round Table: http://www.miairsoft.org/index.php?topic=408.0)

The purpose of the Round Table is to generate discussion about the latest airsoft news, trends and other "hot" topics. Ultimately, our goal is get forum members engaged and contributing in order to build a better MiA community.

Each week we will post a MiA Round Table thread with a series of discussion questions or statements. We invite MiA members to get involved and have their say!

This week's discussion

Teching Best Practices

Gearbox teching, r-hops, sniper tech, etc.

What are some best practices for teching airsoft guns? How do you distinguish between a "good" tech and a "bad" tech? What weird stuff have you see inside gearboxes? What sort of unusual problems have you seen with guns brought in for work? Should we give up on NiHM batteries and all just go to LiPos? Are fuses even necessary and is AoE adjustment even needed? What are some of the online resources you guys use for doing tech work?

Have your say!

@luke213

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Re: MiA Round Table #2: Teching Best Practices
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2015, 05:21:17 PM »
Probably the weirdest incident I've encountered in teching, was finding a barrel lock clip, in the gearbox under the nozzle, and preventing the tappet plate from moving.

I personally love LiPos. Light weight, powerful, and generally can be more condensed than NiMh/NiCad. They are much cheaper(so long as you don't buy from Airsoft retailers) as well.

Fuses can protect your gun/battery from drawing too much power, but they can also sometimes hinder performance. I personally would prefer a MOSFET over a fuse any day, even though they are really to be compared on the same level. I would say it's a matter of as long as the rest of your gun is maintained and tuned properly, you should be fine without a fuse.

As for online resources, being a part of the Airsoft Teching Q&A has clued me into numberous tips and tricks. There are a number of knowledgable people on there. For parts, my first choices are brillarmory.com and clandestineairsoft.com. Very reasonable prices with quicker shipping than larger retailers.
Offering airsoft repair, upgrades, tuning and customization, check out: Tange Six Airsoft Teching Facebook
Check out what I have for sale: Tango Six MIA sale thread

Snarf

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Re: MiA Round Table #2: Teching Best Practices
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2015, 07:38:12 PM »
I don't work on other people's guns, but I have bought a few used that had some weird things. I got an "upgraded" AK a while ago from a guy on AS, and it was all sorts of messed up. He said I had to use a lipo in it because "it takes a lot of power." Plugged in a 11.1, and it locked up mid cycle. Tore it down to find a balanced motor pulling SHS 18:1's with an M130, while the sector gear was short stroked (but the piston wasn't for some reason). It was horribly shimmed (looked like he didn't change the stock Lancer Tactical shim job) and the piston head was gratuitously wrapped in teflon tape (terrible airseal anyways). The icing on the cake was the gearbox grease, which left an interesting pattern on the spur gear:



I posted it on ASM and someone thought it was a SystemA helical gear  ;D.

I'm just going to agree with T6 about the lipos. There isn't really much more to say; they're great. Hobbyking is a great place to get them.

I haven't used a fuse on any AEG since my first one. So far I've had good luck with the Jonezy fet, the Gate Pico SSR, and of course the Nukefet.

There's a lot of teching info on AS, and of course ASM. Once again, I agree with T6 about brill and clandestine. Great places to buy parts.

luke213

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Re: MiA Round Table #2: Teching Best Practices
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2015, 11:39:25 AM »
Gearbox teching, r-hops, sniper tech, etc.

What are some best practices for teching airsoft guns? How do you distinguish between a "good" tech and a "bad" tech? What weird stuff have you see inside gearboxes? What sort of unusual problems have you seen with guns brought in for work? Should we give up on NiHM batteries and all just go to LiPos? Are fuses even necessary and is AoE adjustment even needed? What are some of the online resources you guys use for doing tech work?

Well when it comes to teching guns in my head I still just think fixing, back in the day I never heard it called "teching" or mechanics like it is now. But I don't believe either term is incorrect, just haven't adapted to it.

My own experiences started over ten years ago, reading and being in an area with little to no airsoft available. As a result I didn't have anyone to learn from other than online, this was pre Youtube as well. So text based guides, and lots of incorrect information. Today allot of things are better vetted but there is still incorrect information being passed around and I've found testing really is the way to weed out allot of that. On forums there are people who pass on info they haven't tried, and that's fine so long as you clarify that, but sometimes that info is incorrect.

I don't really have much to say a good tech from a bad tech, no one local to me does work;) Well other than a few guys like myself that fix their own guns and other players. But none of us makes a business of it, just needs to be done and no one else available to do it. I'd say it's all about knowledge though, airsoft like fixing allot of things is about knowing how to apply principles and understanding how mechanical systems work. Generally you can take care of allot of things just following those basics, but having specific knowledge of gun platforms helps allot. If I had to have someone work on my gun, I'd want to see their personal guns. Particularly if they had a platform IE M4 that matched what I wanted them to work on. I'd want to see FPS consistency as well as how well the gun runs and sounds. Not a perfect test but it would tell me a fair amount of how they work on things. That same thing though could tell someone who doesn't know much about AEG's allot less info;)

Weird stuff, well back in the day I saw what I felt was inconsistency when it came to internals etc. Now that I'm working on some modern guns, I look back at some of the things I saw and wish I had that level of consistency back;) IE Some of the less expensive brands like CYMA can be a heck of a deal, but they require tuning to be worth anything most times. Back when brands like CA were looked down on because they didn't stand up to TM in terms of consistency but I'll tell ya an old stock CA is miles from a stock CYMA or honestly most of the other brands I've handled lately including some more expensive brands. But back on track I've seen trigger trolley's fail, I've had gearboxes that the shimming was so bad I have no idea how they were functional. A completely dry gearbox stock, must have missed the grease gun all together. One of the strangest guns I've run into is my build I've been working on just all sorts of problems end to end. Each time I find one another one pops up, but that happens sometimes. This gun just seems to be having every problem I've seen and some I haven't:)

Lipo's they didn't exist when I was involved in airsoft before so this was a new thing to me. I've known of them and used them in other application but not airsoft until recently. I've been working with 7.4v lipo's, and I've replaced everything with them. Cheaper than NIMH/NICAD, smaller and better power delivery. Overall there is only one thing they aren't as good at. They are sensitive to shock/impact, as well as proper charging, and if those things are done incorrectly things can get hot and interesting quickly. But those issues aside they are in my opinion the best power source right now available.

Fuses, I've almost entirely left them intact up until recently I started swapping guns over to deans and limiting resistance in my builds. In airsoft as a whole I've killed like 2 fuses out of all of the guns I've owned and they were stupid mistakes like grounding a wire I didn't cover. So I've gotten to the point that I'm not worried enough to use them. I will use mosfets if needed for some guns in place so to speak of a fuse, but more for the protection to the trigger contacts.

AOE is another new thing, haven't done a ton with it. I have researched it, but most of my builds haven't included sorbo or anything to throw off stock AOE. I will be messing with it more soon when I get time to work on the M16 build again. Overall makes sense to me from a mechanical standpoint what the reason is for it, less binding etc. So I'd say while hard to wrap my head around I think it's a valid issue.

Take care!

Luke
xaos - "298,000 yen for a complete gun. How much is that in real money?"

Gimpalong

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Re: MiA Round Table #2: Teching Best Practices
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2015, 10:53:39 AM »
This is going to be a controversial one, but what do you guys think of Marui gearboxes?

I've owned a couple in the past (M733, P90) and, for what they are, they functioned fine. Seemed pretty smooth, had a nice, crisp pneumatic pop when fired. That said, nothing really special to write home about.

I'm always amazed when I see people selling Marui M14s for a premium and expressly touting that the gun as a Marui. Obviously, yeah, Marui M14s aren't bad and the QC is top notch. That said, you rarely see people falling over themselves to praise the Marui G36 line or the old Marui M4 line. Yet whenever someone asks "what M14 should I get?" the Marui M14 always comes up. This is never the case with G36s or M4s.


luke213

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Re: MiA Round Table #2: Teching Best Practices
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2015, 02:36:29 PM »
I will likely post more when I'm on the computer but I've found tm to be great performing guns at stock levels. Allot of that is quality control but also they make good parts some don't last at higher levels but if they are left stock they go a long time.

Also when upgrading a TM gun there is seldom the surprises that await you with other stuff. The m4 line and m16 biggest problem is the outer barrel and barrel wobble not sure if that has changed but the last few I owned nearly 10 years ago had that issue. The g36 well I own one of those now and its a dang good gun solid performance but I've not handled anything but TM g36's since that was all there was. The m14 I think gets the nod because long range is all about consistency and starting with a consistent base gun helps. In the case of the m14 no one makes an aftermarket hop up unit so I'd say your further ahead with the tm than say the CYMA.

So my opinion if you've got the money to spend go tm if not then save the cash and work through another cheaper gun.

Luke

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xaos - "298,000 yen for a complete gun. How much is that in real money?"