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Rhop my experiences thus far

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luke213:
Alright guys I'm bringing this back up with an update on things I've found. The other day I tackled the M14 rhop project along with shimming the gearbox and a few other things that had been waiting for a little time to take care of. Now I think I mentioned it above but this gun has been a bear for me to rhop, might be because it's the first one I tried though. I must have tried 20 different patches or at least it feels like that I didn't keep count. I know I tore the gun down to the barrel assembly at least 20 times trying different things. The good news is apparently all that experience is paying off. I finally got the rhop installed properly into the M14 and the results are good better than it's shot pretty much with any other configuration. It's not a tack driver but it's good enough for around 9 out of 10 on the folding chair at 50 yards and I've managed intermittent results on the 75 yard chair. I'd say it's slightly easier to hit the 75 yard chair than with my M4 which as mentioned is also rhopped now. Though I think the consistency of the M4 is better right now but I believe it might be air seal at the hopup, we'll see with more testing. Now I should mention that's with .25g BB's in the M14 I haven't really tested heavier weights. With the FPS it's running I think I could pretty easily bump up to .36g and get better results in general from the gun but that will have to wait until I order BB's again.

Results wise it's about the same other than this gun has been a bit of a problem child with buckings and the barrel. It's got a weird deep hopup window which I think was the cause of some of my rhop problems to begin with as well it's more difficult to tear apart than an M4 in my opinion to make changes. I am happy to say though I never liked the small amount of adjustment that a normal bucking allowed in this gun because of the hopup design. I always felt I couldn't lift a heavier BB since I was nearly at the end of the adjustment just setting it for .25's. Now I'm able to set it for .25's around 1/3 of the way into the adjustment maybe less. So I've got plenty more hopup to apply for heavier ammo. And like I mentioned this time it was the first time that it worked. So the last several times I've done an rhop it's worked first try so I think allot of it is getting used to how it's going to work installing it in the barrel and how to do the whole process. Once you have that down it's allot easier from what I've seen. Also I'm glad I bought the tubing at this point as well since it would have cost me a fortune in pre-made patches to try this many times and fail.

So still unsure, might try to do some better testing going forward as I rhop other guns in my collection since right now 3 out of 12 are running the rhop and I might play with something like my shorty M4 since it's got a pretty strict range of 60 yards or so. And if I rhop that and it goes out to 75 it would be somewhat conclusive that there is a change.

Take care!

Luke

luke213:
Another update of experiences. My Sniper rifle bar the spring problem I mentioned in another thread is shooting very consistently at up to around 100 yards now I'm quite happy with it. Though I did tear things apart and work over the hopup area again and managed to correct a hooking problem. I had a little burr of rubber on the rhop that started hooking right after a while. I might not have broken the edge of the patch well enough before installing it. Either way that corrected and with little wind it's working very well.

One thing I've noticed that I don't recall if I mentioned above, the effect of rhop seems to be a more gradual hop effect. With an ordinary bucking I find when you overhop that it goes over a short range very high up. With rhop it's more gradual and as a result I'm finding a touch of overhop will gain a fair bit more range than how I used to adjust hopups in the past. Just a touch, not jumping up high and dropping just a gradual increase above line of sight. It also allows me to hit longer shots without huge amounts of hold over.

My m14 still isn't consistent enough for me, mostly because my m4 with nearly the same barrel length is significantly more consistent. I believe it's the barrel though, I have an unknown 6.02 steel barrel in the M14 which I think is causing the inconsistency. One of these days I'll swap it with the M4 barrel and see if the groups tighten up accordingly. Right now the M4 is able to fairly consistently hit the 75 yard mark on the chair and the groups with .25's are surprisingly good. The amazing thing about that to me is that the sniper rifle really almost requires the 43g's to reach out well to those ranges but the M4 seems capable even with the lighter weight cheaper ammo. I'm going to have to test allot more to see what's going on exactly but it's interesting.

So currently I'm a bit of an rhop believer in the sense that I do see some things that it seems to do better than a standard bucking. It's got quirks though as well, right now my m4 for some reason will overhop like crazy once in a blue moon. No idea what's causing it at the moment, once it starts shooting properly it stays that way for a long time. Seems to be more when it's cold bore just starting out lacking a better term. So I'm going to have to look into that and see if maybe the patch has come loose from the barrel window or something.

Either way I'm seeing longer range consistency than I've found with other options and after much trial and lots of error I seem to have mostly figured out the installation pretty well. I'm still planning on installing some rhops in shorter barreled guns just haven't had the time to fiddle with them much lately. I will say my results say there is no reason an rhop can't work with light weight ammo. I've got all of mine to where no hop is no hop, and I can run any normal weight .20g or above without adverse effects. So it's all about making sure the patch doesn't enter the barrel to insure it doesn't overhop lighter weight BB's. I will say it's touchy getting just a very little bit of hopup on lighter weights since they overhop so easily but it does work fine once you get it set.

Either way thought guys might be interested in hearing how it's going so far.

Take care!

Luke

Ghast:
Luke, My GR-25 is accurate to 307' for a man sized target measured by Yankee with a distance wheel about 4 years back. It uses an IER-hop and M-Nub. I took my time with it (re 3 fucking hours) but got it right on the first try. Having a set of small files such as Jewelry files helps immensely.

luke213:
Alrighty guys another rhop/ gun update relating to accuracy and range. This morning being fathers day my wife let me sneak out to the shop when I didn't need to build holsters;) So I took some time to finally throw that m16 length stock brass barrel into my M14. The barrel is a few inches say around 3 shorter than the barrel that was installed and I was incorrect stating that it was a 6.02, it was actually a 6.03 steel of unknown brand. Well looking down the barrel I noticed something I had seen before but put two and two together this morning. I noticed a banding effect visually in the barrel it's not super noticeable and previously I just ignored it since I thought it was just a visual thing it looked weird. Well I was reading an article and I saw this picture:


That is what I envision is the inner barrel surface even though it's more spread out than that. Well point is that I replaced that barrel with the M16 length barrel that was already rhopped and wow what a difference. I went from probably around a 6ft. group at 75 yards to being able to hit a folding chair around 5-8 times out of 10. I'm impressed by the range particularly with .25g BB's since it's nearly as accurate as my sniper rifle with .43g. That said it's much more effected by wind of course due to the light weight but super impressive compared to my other rifles right now.

So the barrel I had is bad, or at the least poorly made and not worth using in any of my guns. I don't know the brand but it's garbage and the stock brass barrel of known origin is much superior for longer range shooting. I noticed the BB's are not going much past the target, they are nearly out of energy at that point but it's shooting on the chrono around 420fps with .2g BB's. I need to one of these days cut the spring down to make it MIA legal though I don't expect to be bringing it to any games other than the ones I organize myself and I'm plenty happy just leaving it on semi auto for the day. Honestly I typically run semi anyways so it's not a huge loss. Though I suspect with 20fps less I won't loose a significant range advantage so I will likely get it down to 400 so that I've got the option for full auto as well.

I haven't shot this combination with a normal bucking to say hey this is the rhop making the difference but my other bucking based guns as still dropping short of this mark with the same basic FPS levels, so I'm willing to say the rhop is probably responsible for the slight gains in range. With an ordinary bucking I seem to hit the limit around 65-70 yards without overhopping to crazy levels. I will say the M14 is overhopping just a little bit, likely my rhop installation since I've barely got the hopup engaged to keep it where it is, just touching the nub. So if I felt like tearing it down again(I don't;) I could take a little more material off the rhop and fix that. Likely I'll just buy some more .28's and see how they do or test some heavier ammo since this is going to be a semi auto gun most likely 99% of the time anyhow. So I'd like to see how it does in the kinda sniper role with the option to switch over if I get found.

But it's overall a great change for the gun that has been honestly a real pain in the butt to get working properly. I don't think I've ever torn apart a gun this many times just to have it give me problems over and over again. But now that it's shooting well it gives me an excuse to carry that heavy of a gun into the field;)

I'll update again when I get around to rhopping a few of the other guns around here, might be a little while. I think I'll play with some of the shorter barreled and lower fps options and see if there are any interesting finds.

Take care!

Luke

Snarf:
There's a theory running around the internet that says that wide bore barrels are better for long range accuracy. Of course there are a ton of variables to consider (bore quality being one of the most important) but maybe that's why the brass battle did better. Also I appreciate this detailed documentation; it's really helpful since I'm considering rhopping some barrels soon.

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