Discussion Boards > Newbie Discussion

Newbie FAQ UPDATED 6/12/03

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M.S.-ARC:
AEG upgrades are synergistic. The individual parts add together to make a better whole. However, just as these parts can work together to increase performance, their improper combination and installation can also work to totally wreck your AEG. Do you know exactly which parts work with what others? Do you know how to selectively increase torque or RPM? Are you even sure what spring to use with your planned upgrade? As a newbie, you have many other things to worry about – ranging from picking out a suitable GBB sidearm to picking out proper body-kit/gear. The last thing you need to further confuse yourself with is a crash-course in AEG tuning/upgrading. No amount of cramming will prepare you to undertake all the finer aspects of tuning your replica. Worry about upgrades some other time. Get your feet wet in the sport first.
E. Durability, reliability, and maintenance concerns
With that said, you’re now probably back to worrying about the durability/reliability of these models again. Once more, I’ll remind you that as TM AEGs, they all share approximately the same track records when it comes to these two factors.
Even though they share much in common, you should keep in mind that each model will differ slightly in certain mechanical performance, durability, reliability, and aesthetic areas. As such, you should either perform thorough searches on the Forums on AirsoftZone, the Forums on www.AirsoftPlayers.com, Arnie’s Airsoft (UK), the UKAN Forums, as well as at our own AirsoftOhio Forums to familiarize yourself with these special, model-dependent variables.
And again, I stress that you should DO YOUR OWN SEARCHES.
Why? Simple – depending on the players who post information as a response to your question for your sole source of information is plain lazy, not to mention dumb. Who’s to say that these people have actual experience with your chosen AEG? And even if they say they do, how do you know they’re not lying? Better yet, how can you possibly even be sure that they know what they’re talking about? And really, do the posts you receive truly reflect the status of the AEG, or are you just seeing a bunch of posts that, when totaled together, barely amount to enough cases for you to even begin to draw a conclusion? By DOING YOUR OWN SEARCHES, you will be able to see the complete picture – you’ll read about topics that you haven’t even thought about, and problems that perhaps no one else has even mentioned. Furthermore, you’ll get a “historical” perspective; you’ll get a feel for how many players are or have been satisfied with this AEG, and how many have had problems, as well as the extent of these problems, and if there have been any documented “cures.” To let go of such information is to chose to be ignorant, and to be so stupid will surely land you with an AEG that you’re not happy of once you receive it. Please, I beg of you, do your OWN searches before you spend your hard earned money to buy a replica.
One last item that you should keep in mind is that often, there’s a tremendous amount of production variability in even just one model line. For example, the infamous “chassis-flex” that plagues the TM H&K G3 SG/1 and the “barrel wobble” that similarly affects the TM Colt-series, while having been extensively documented by several players, has also been decidedly denied by others. Are these other players lying? No, they simply lucked out, and, for whatever reason, just received a better put together item off of the Tokyo Marui production line. It’s much the same as buying a car, or any other major piece of high-tech equipment. Sometimes, you luck out, and you get a piece that is drop-dead reliable; other times, your luck isn’t so great, and you wind up with a “lemon” that’s broken as soon as you take it out of the box. As with anything else that’s mass-produced, there’s a bit of production-line variability in quality of build to be expected with these AEGs.
And as for maintenance, simply follow what the Tokyo Marui manual that arrives with your AEG dictate. There’s enough English directions in there that you should EASILY be able to figure out what to do and when to do it. There is no secret here, the TM manual will teach you ALL that you need to know. Read it. It has English sub-text.
Get yourself a bottle of pure silicone spray or oil lubricant (AVOID any and all petroleum distillates [yes, some petroleum distillates are indeed safe for natural and artificial rubbers, but such products are very, very hard to find and/or, MORE importantly, are just about impossible make sure that they are indeed safe for use, as their “claims” might suggest] as it will harm your rubber seals/Hop bucking) – Team Associated Shock Oil, between 5 to 15 “grade” weight,” is an ideal lube/general purpose cleaner; you can easily obtain this item from any large hobby shop (it is used as the fill oil for scale-model remote-controlled car “RC-car” shock absorbers), and you’re set to go. There’s a bunch of information about maintenance and lubricants available on the various d-boards and Forums, and I again recommend that you turn to them for more complete information.
Basics aside, if you find yourself in serious trouble and you need to start learning about AEG internals, the following links will help:
http://www.airsoftplayers.com/manuals.asp - AirsoftPlayers’ list of true TM Technical Manuals for their AEGs. These are like those thick service-manuals that your mechanic has in his shop. These are much, much more detailed than the schematic that TM has given you in your owner’s manual, and are an invaluable asset for troubleshooting.
http://www.section6.fsnet.co.uk/aeg_upgrade.html - Section VI, a well-regarded group of enthusiasts and players in the UK , nicely put together this mechabox basic disassembly guide.
http://www.airsoftplayers.com/guides.asp - More mechabox tutorials, this time, from AirsoftPlayers.
Finally, look on AirsoftZone’s opening page. In the “Past Featured Articles” section, look at the style='font-size: 8.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>December 4, 1998 entry. It’s Skyfire’s (Francis Zhou) translation of the 1998 Airgun Custom Parts Catalog (Japan, Seibido Mook – now publishers of the ToyGun Tune Up File, the 2003 version, although it no longer contains the mechabox guide, has a complete disassembly guide of all TM AEGs plus several common GBBs, which is worth the price of purchase alone)

Section Two, GBBs:
General considerations, durability and reliability
Hate to break it to all of you like this, but there are NO 100% reliable gas-blowback (“GBB”) pistol replicas. That’s right, NONE – not even the fabled Western Arms marque. Trust me, even the best of this genre, the true thoroughbreds, are temperamental bitches.
Empirically, GBBs are simply more prone to operational failures than their respective AEG counterparts. The GBB’s cyclic action is inherently harmful to its parts, and, moreover, the necessary containment of pressurized gas makes them constantly vulnerable to leaks. Additionally, they are arguably more maintenance intensive, requiring a much more regular diet of lubricant oils as well as attention to other types of mechanical cleaning.
But, on the other hand, this argument can also be reversed.
Since I wrote the first draft of this FAQ nearly 3 years ago, I've come to have a different opinion about the GBB vs. AEG durability/reliability issue.
The way I see it now, it's actually what the individual player himself feels most comfortable maintaining and repairing that makes the most difference in this matter -- as it is often a *_PERCEIVED_* lack of durability/reliability when comparing one genre to the other that is at the root of this debate.
For example, those who have messed around with electrical components all their lives – upgrading computers – or have messed around with R/C cars and planes, for example, may think that an AEG is a snap to repair. At the same time, they may cringe in fear of the high-pressure gas-containment systems that comprise the average GBB. On the other hand, someone who may have started off with paintball and its pneumatic systems would obviously feel more comfortable working with the straightforward pneumatics of the GBBs – and at the same time, they may not be as comfortable shimming gears and splicing wires.
Nevertheless, it still remains that NO GBB is 100% reliable…..
As such, my recommendation? If you carry a GBB as a skirmish sidearm, you should carry at least one additional spare magazine – or carry another GBB or NBB (gas-non-blowback) or even a springer (spring piston powered, single-cocking per shot) pistol as a backup. In the military, they’ve got a saying: “two is one and one is none.” That’s what it means to have a “redundant” backup. That’s what you need with GBBs.
- The Hop issue
More so than with AEGs, GBBs often offer the choice between having an adjustable Hop, a “fixed” Hop, or no Hop at all.
What’s right for you?
Let’s discuss Hop first.
What is Hop?
Simply put, it is a method of introducing variable friction to the surface of the BB as the BB shoots past, thus inducing “backspin” on the ball. As with a lob in tennis, this carries the ball slightly farther than a comparably discharged ball without Hop/backspin.
In theory, the Hop effect exists only to increase range, and will not be detrimental, as a “spin” factor, to the overall expected “accuracy” of the BB downfield.

M.S.-ARC:
However, in practice – in the real world – Hop is not without slight detriment thereof. In so much as Hop introduces a simple additional variable to the overall system, it causes a degree of uncertainty to be added, and that, unfortunately, degrades overall “accuracy” a bit. But the trade-off here is a greatly extended effective range.
Think of the trade-off in this way:
You’re shooting an arrow at a close-by target. Pretty easy to hit the bull’s eye each and every time, right? Now, I’m going to move the target way, way back – so far back that you have to “arc” in your arrows. What happens? You can still hit the target, but it becomes much harder to hit the bull’s eye every time.
Same idea here. You trade range for ultimate precision and accuracy.
This is why most times, GBBs without Hop are limited only to close-to-medium range activities, such as BB-IPSC target shooting. For these sporting contests, ultimate precision at short range is the name of the game. As such, taking Hop away from these GBBs results in increased overall consistency of the shots at such ranges.
However, when you have a skirmish-use GBB, trust me, you’ll want to have Hop.
Why? Because you need the increase in effective range more than you need a precision tack-driver at close range.
This can be explained by the following very, very dramatic (but true) example.
The super-extended inner-barrel “6-inch” variant of the Western Arms ProKiller 2000, when paired with high-pressure Taiwanese “Green Gas,” can easily launch a 0.20 gram BB with close to 500 fps. muzzle velocity.
However, it is barely able to match the effective range of a standard-configuration WA SVI, which, with a barrel length some 120 mm shorter than the above ProKiller and with a muzzle velocity of only around 350 fps. with 0.20 gram BBs using the above gas, you’d expect would actually perform much worse than the ProKiller in terms of effective range.
Why is this the case? How can the much shorter and much less powerful standard SVI equal the effective range of the ProKiller 2000?
The standard SVI has Hop. Hop helps it carry the BB farther than just sheer muzzle velocity/energy ever can.
So remember the following rule:
BB-IPSC/target-shooting (short-to-medium range) – go with a non-Hop system for maximum precision and accuracy.
Skirmish – go with an adjustable or “fixed” Hop system to maximize effective range.
Remember, skirmish = Hop!
- So many choices, which one do I choose?
As there are many, many more brands of GBBs than AEGs, one is led to the inevitable question, right-away, of: “Which brand do I choose?”
This is absolutely impossible to say.
Within just about ANY of the GBB makers, from Taiwan , Japan , or otherwise, both good and bad can be found. Basing your decision on any one “brand name” is liable to land you in a world of trouble.
What does this mean for you, the buyer?
Again, you simply MUST do your own homework. With the abundance of different models out there from different makes, unless you are well educated in the specifics of the particular make/model you are interested in, you can pretty much be assured that you will not make the best decision. Grab a cup of coffee or a bottle of soda and a snack, and get ready to just READ. Use the same resources as I’ve cited above for the AEGs – the AirsoftZone Forums, the www.AirsoftPlayers.com Forums, Arnie’s Airsoft Forums, and the UKAN Forums contain a virtual treasure chest of information regarding just about all of the various GBBs out there. As with AEGs, if you choose to not read these posts, you’d again be choosing to be ignorant and stupid – not to mention lazy. You owe it to yourself to be an educated consumer, hobbyist, and player. Please use the search functions available on these Forums and d-boards, and educate yourself.
With that said, I realize that some of you are after certain specifics as newbies – and have put down the following two generalized references to help you get started.
One of the first questions asked is often this:
A. I want a cheap GBB, what’s out there?
The problem here is that you’re focused on only one thing – cost.
Now I realize that some of you may only be 14 or 15 years old, and may be holding down jobs like mowing lawns during the summer or babysitting or dog-watching during the winter. Doesn’t pay much, and the parents’ allowance isn’t exactly a windfall, either.
But there’s just some realities here that you cannot escape. And one of these is the fact that you simply need to invest some money in order to return with a quality product. In my opinion, you can have an affordable, but still skirmish-capable (in terms of durability, reliability, and performance) GBB by setting aside at least $150.
For this price you should be able to get any of the following (listed in no particular order):
Full-auto:
compact SMGs :
KSC or KWA Ingram/Cobray M11A1
select-fire machine pistols:
KSC Glock 18C (stock) or KWA Glock 18C (stock or upgraded)
Semi-auto pistols:
sub-compact
Tokyo Marui (TM) Glock 26
compact :
KSC Glock 19 ( Japan or Taiwan version)
Kuan Ju Works (KJW) USP Compact
full-sized :
KSC Glock 17 (stock or upgraded) and M9 Elite
KJW USP, USP Tactical, and M9
KWC “high-grade” M92FS “Super” heavyweight or “high grade” Desert Eagle
TM M9 and Tactical Master
Some you might find for a discount. For example, there are routinely very good on-line specials offered for many of these models, with prices dipping down into the $80 range. In this case, you can easily buy one of these replicas plus a few spare mags, which is necessary for skirmish play.
Regardless, this is what is absolutely necessary as a MINIMUM investment. Sure, you can find $30 GBBs, but trust me, more often than not, they’ll break before you’ve even run a handful of BBs through them, and most will return with unacceptable field performance.
But with that said, there are indeed some generalizations that can be made….
B. Some generalizations
Tanaka Works, hands-down, wins for their gas-operated, NBB revolvers. No one else even comes close in terms of cosmetic or functional refinement -- and definitely not power, durability, reliability, or efficiency/consistency.

Western Arms wins in the category of most upgradeable 1911/2011-series -- and thus also takes the crown for being the base platform for a custom pistol of that genre of either skirmish or race/competition (i.e. BB-IPSC) orientation. KSC takes the cake in terms of cosmetic refinement of their 1911/2011-line, though. Note here that the KSC, KWC, KWA, and Maruzen 1911-type GBBs are all non skirmish viable for various reasons (the first three are totally deficient in terms of replacement parts access, the last simply does not produce sufficient muzzle energ – skirmish 1911/2011? WAs are your only ticket).

KSC and TM shares the crown for having, IMHO, the best and most affordable M9/92FS-genre replicas, including durability/reliability and upgradeability in terms of a bang-for-the-dollar comparison (the TM replica wins out if affordability of upgrades is taken into consideration). If you have an unlimited bank account, go for the WA to gain superior cosmetics.

Best Desert Eagle .50 is a split between KWC and TM. The former has an almost bulletproof replica, provided that you don't get a lemon to start with -- the latter has one that is much more cosmetically refined (durability/reliability/performance must wait until there's been enough time spent with the new version to assess, which will come in a few months' time at the earliest, until then, such judgements with the new TM are premature).
For the H&K USP replicas, KJW is the one and only that provides sufficient access to aftermarket replacement and upgrade parts. It’s not pretty, and there are known problems with it, but it’s better than either the rather fragile (and now defunct) Tanaka (persistent magazine leak) as well as the impossible-to-get Maruzen/Tanio-Koba (for that very reason).

In the full-auto category, KSC/KWA blows everyone out of the water. The old KSC M93Rs were nifty, but rather unreliable and non-durable unless extensively (and expensively) upgraded -- however, initial impressions from very experienced and very trustworthy sources all point to the new KSC M93R II as being totally different, for the better, in this respect (judgement on the new M93R II in terms of durability/reliability is pending this summer [20003’s] skirmish season). But even beyond that, who can contest the class-dominance of the KSC/KWA Glock 18C or the Ingram/Cobray M11A1? And please don't try to drag the WA SVFs or the WA M11 into this picture, neither are nor were sufficiently durable or reliable enough for true skirmish use and abuse -- the former assessment comes directly out of Mobius Strip, who is perhaps the Western world's leading SVF guru, and the latter, well, I can attest to as I own the last-generation variant of the WA M11, full “Special Kit.” Maruzen's offerings come close, but durability is a worry, as it the lack of availability of upgrade parts. Oh, and I can't forget to mention the tank that is the TMP, either!
For sub-compacts, no-one can beat the TM Glock 26.

M.S.-ARC:
Digicon in terms of NBBs, with Marushin's MAXI series trailing by a margin, although still worthy of mention. For a lower-priced piece, it's however near impossible to beat the TM H&K Mk23Mod0 SOCOM. Here, I should also note that the Digicon and Marushin MAXI series NBBs often produce dangerously high levels of muzzle energy/velocity, and is often NOT suited for skirmish use, particularly in the “pistol” fashion of the word in that close-range engagements may be very dangerous. The TM H&K Mk23Mod0 SOCOM would be a much better and totally safe choice.

Best “bang for the buck?” KJW -- all products; KWC -- specifically for their "high-grade" M92FS "Super" Heavyweight and Desert Eagle; KWA -- specifically for their Glock 18C and M11A1. None are particularly pretty or particularly refined, but they will be more than sufficient for the skirmish player on a budget. The KSC Glock 17 is also a sleeper.

Easiest to adjust Hop mechanism goes to KSC/KWA. However, Western Arms wins for having the most consistent -- if absolutely atrocious to adjust -- Hop mechanism.

Cold weather resistance goes to the proprietary-n.l.s. fitted current-generation Western Arms double-stacker 2011-type replicas.
But again, as you can see, this is very, very generalized information, and in no way covers all of your potential purchases. As such, in order to make good decisions, you’ll have to have some basic knowledge under your belt.
C. That question that always pop up: KSC and KWA, what’s the deal?
KSC Japan , KSC Taiwan, and KWA – what does all this mean?

First of all, I believe that if something works, then it's fine, it doesn't matter what trademark is on it or not. As such, the KSC/KWA M11, KSC/KWA Glock 18C, as well as the KSC Taiwan and KSC Japan S&W Performance Center M945 are practically the same, to me, in terms performance -- including durability and reliability. The only differences are cosmetic, if that.

Overall:

Currently, all speculation regarding the supposed link between KSC and KWA are based only on circumstantial evidence, at-best.

Even what Jinxx and myself found nearly 2 years ago, a "Made in Taiwan" etching under a faux trademark panel on our respective fully-trademarked, supposedly KSC, Glock 18Cs is, at best, only circumstantially representative of such arguments of the two companies having supposed ties.

The truth is, no official word of any such links have come from either companies.
No official shipping manifests or any type of duty documents have ever been provided to further reinforce or deny such claims. No hard, concrete proof has ever been offered, one way or the other.

All of the current "proof/evidence" has been from a "he-said/she-said" type of Internet media hysteria. “X or Y heard it from A or B retailer or reseller.” Or “A or B reseller/retailer hearing it from their Q or Z Hong Kong/Taiwan ‘supplier/wholesaler.’”
That's all the “proof” that you're going to get.

Is this supposed "proof" good enough?

My simple answer is no, it is not.

Remember back in the late 90's, when many US retailers were INSISTING that KWA M9s were "import friendly" WA Perfect Versions? Well, I dispelled that myth by going directly to the source -- Western Arms not only officially denied any such connections, but even provided proof of their having taken up legal action against KWA for copyright and patent infringements.

After I blew the top on that story, these retailers claimed that "their suppliers" said the KWAs were "import friendly" WAs -- much like what is said today of the link between KSC and KWA, is it not?

The truth of the matter is that we currently have no solid proof, one way or the other, regarding entire KSC/KWA relationship.

And with the way that the Far-Eastern marketplace is dominated by illicit and illegal clones and copies of all sorts of goods, we simply cannot take anything for-granted, as per my tale of WA/KWA above.

Until someone provides me with absolutely irrefutable proof, I will remain a skeptic, and I encourage the same from all of you.

As for whether if the KSC and KWA goods are actually one and the same, aside from this "claim" issue above, again, we're forced into a situation of conflict.

There have been VERY, VERY, VERY well-respected hobbyists on both sides of the fence. After having inspected the goods, there have been those who have said that they've seen distinct differences not only in design, but also in materials construct between the items from either company -- but there also have been similarly respected hobbyists who insist that the items are identical.

Again, if nothing else, this is once more simple cause for being cautious in saying anything at all about the supposed link between KSC and KWA.

---

What does this all mean?

To me, actually, not a lot.....

Why?

Well, if one replica works as well as the other in terms of performance, durability, and reliability, then what's to worry about?

The KSC M11 and KWA M11 practically have the same durability and reliability track-record (and with KWA's second-generation metal-bolt factory-OEM piece, this factor swings decidedly in favor of KWA, does it not? -- and to wit, why would KWA have such an item, but KSC not?); and the same goes for the Glock 18Cs (in this case, the latter-generation KSC product have a reinforced slide, but the KWAs do not, although the KWAs are supposedly also slightly more durable ...again, strange, is it not?).

[ Note, at the same time, watch out for the KWA M9's, they're still not up to par in terms of durability or reliability -- the KSC Elites are much better in both respects -- again, strange for a set of companies that's supposedly sharing one bed, is it not? ]

As long as you can tell which item suits your needs (i.e. trademarks, durability, etc.), I currently see no problem with purchasing from either.....

But until further proof, I'll still consider them separate makes, and again, I urge you to do the same.
- Knowledge Base
One sincere advice that I have for all newbies is to also become familiar with the various technical aspects behind the entire GBB genre.
A good place to start would be to become conversant about the various types of propellant gasses available.
A. Gas type
Please read my “Gas Primer,” found both on the AirsoftZone hobbyist discussion Forums (http://vettaserv.pct.net/aszone/forums/message.cfm?topic_id=533&forum_id=11#538420 - this URL is liable to change, if you can’t find it, simply log in to AirsoftZone, search for the term “Gas Primer” under the “Topics” criteria, turn the search date parameter back to “Last Year” to cover that length of time, set the search for only the “Gas Guns” Forum, you’ll easily find the post then) and the AirsoftPlayers Forums (http://www.airsoftplayers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=177&SearchTerms=gas,primer).
PLEASE carefully and thoroughly read through the entire contents of this guide. I actually would prefer that you use the AirsoftZone version, as the ensuing discussions there are much more complete, and offer the beginner an excellent overall perspective on what to expect. Focus specifically on these AirsoftZone replies to my original “Gas Primer” post:
1. my 10:30 PM July 28, 2000 reply
2. MrWhite’s question at 11:36 PM October 08, 2000 and my reply to that question on 10:09 PM October 09, 2000
3. my 11:16 AM April 08, 2001 reply
4. my 07:29 PM July 01, 2001 reply
So now you know what the gasses are – let’s now learn…..

M.S.-ARC:
B. How to fill your GBB magazines
Once you have a good understanding of the basics of airsoft gasses, move on to this excellent post on the UKAN Forums:
http://forums.ukairsoft.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47714 - Meh-lindi’s initial 5 posts on that thread are absolutely excellent.
There, focus especially on the basics of GBB magazine filling technique. To this end, I will supplement with my own input here.

Let's first work to understand how the fill mechanism and the magazine fill valve work.

At the bottom of the magazine is where you typically fill the reservoir with propellant gas.

Here, this incoming gas fill valve is held closed by springs that seal it against its surrounding seals (no pun intended). This is the default position, and a tight closure seal is required for the gas reservoir to remain pressurized.

During a fill, what you're doing is essentially jamming the gas bottle -- which if you'll notice its nozzle is also spring-loaded -- against this fill valve, depressing the gas valve against its spring so as to open it for gas transfer; and at the same time also depressing the spring-seal assembly that otherwise seals close the bottle's fill nozzle so that it opens, thus allowing the liquid-gas dual-phase propellant to properly flow "down" and into the mag's reservoir.

You must be sure that you are bearing down hard enough on the twin assemblies that you are opening BOTH the nozzle of the gas canister, as well as the magazine bottom incoming fill port/valve.

So now you're filling, but how do you know when the mag is "full?"

Well, without X-ray vision, you pretty much can't see through the mag's aluminum body, right?

Think about being blindfolded and being asked to pour yourself a glass of water, and to make sure that you've got it to the brim.

What do you do?

You keep pouring until the glass overflows, right? That pretty much means that when you stop, your glass will be full, right?

Same idea here.

It's also the same idea for filling many stickshift/ manual gearbox or other transaxle fluids, you fill until a bit dribbles out of the fill/drain hole, and then stop -- it's "full by overflow."

=)

So, with the magazine fill, you simply keep going until it overflows -- that's full.

What will that be like?

During your normal fill, because of imprecise alignment angles between the fill nozzle and the mag's fill nipple, you'll notice a bit of spill of the liquid/gas coming out of its junction point, right? That's normal. Depending on the precise magazine, the mag valve's design, and the precise bottle nozzle -- and most importantly, your own "skill" at accomplishing proper fills -- you'll get varying amount of such spillage.

When you're full-up, this small spill will become a huge backward spurt. Trust me, you'll know. To demonstrate what this will be like, simply invert your fill bottle over a hardcover book, as though you are going to fill it with gas, and press down.

Now, many retailers and some hobbyists will recommend that you fill "no more than X seconds" or use other such "counting" procedures during your fill.

That simply does not work.

Think about filling your car's gas tank versus that of a truck's. Pretty large difference in fill time, right? Same goes for having different sized magazine gas reservoirs -- while it may well only take a nominal 3-4 seconds to fill your standard-capacity (BB-capacity, that is) G18C magazine, it can take upwards of 15 seconds to completely fill an extended 50-round M11 SMG magazine full of gas.

This logic further presents itself as fill times will vary depending on the pressure of the gas you're using, it's residual driving pressure in the fill canister, the ambient temperature and the specific temperatures of both your mag and the fill bottle, your skill/proficiency (in terms of side-waste), etc. and so-on. There's just no way anyone can tell you, for sure, that X magazine will take Y seconds to fill up.

And furthermore, "overpressure" or "blowing out your seal" RARELY, if EVER happens during the initial fill process. Think of it this way, the gas has its own pressure-temperature gradient, right? That serves as a consistent driving force as you fill the mag. And as the mag approaches "full," its internal pressure-volume relationship is going to closely mimic that of the fill bottle's, right? So in essence, your fill is self-terminating. Overpressure almost never happens from improper initial fills, so again, this blows the "never fill your mag for more than X seconds" theory completely out of the water, right?

Simple science and logic.

The only exception to this rule is that with KJW magazines, you really do have to count seconds of fill time – this is because KJW magazines’ fill valves utilize a special seal within its outer diameter that makes the transfer near air-tight. Therefore, there would be no spillage, and by that, no “spurt back” or overflow to indicate that you’re full. Usually, about 4 to 5 seconds will give you a “full” fill with the KJW USP and M9 magazines.
C. Additional knowledge – mag maintenance, fill adaptors, and GBB cyclic function
While you’re at it, you should also check out these links:
http://www.airsoftplayers.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11484 - AirsoftPlayers Forum post regarding care issues for your GBB magazine. Specifically note my 05/25/2003 10:56:38 original post and my 05/26/2003 10:11:38 reply to xevilforce and Kage_genin’s questions immediately preceding.
http://qphreak.iwarp.com/airsoft/butane.htm - Adaptors for “duster gas” canisters, fashioned out of butane lighter refill canister adaptors, from the respected Kevlarman.
http://www.virginiarangers.com/pictures/GBB-dustermod/dustermod.html - Yet another adaptor idea, this time from the guys at The Virginia Rangers – a highly respected skirmish team/club on the east-coast.
http://www.dentrinity.com/Topics/magna.htm - From the DEN Trinity commercial website. Discusses the basics of the WA GBB cycle, however, it also is an excellent overall cycle reference that will allow you to understand the basics of any GBBs function.
D. More knowledge – GBB general maintenance
For general maintenance on GBBs, reference the silicone oil cited in the above AEG section. Typically, while most “true” airsoft gasses (again, if you don’t know what I’m talking about, please reference my “Gas Primer” post) such as those marketed by various Japanese and Taiwanese airsoft manufacturers (i.e. Tokyo Marui, Western Arms, HFC, UHC, “Top Gas/Toy Jack”) contains a very small percentage of silicone lubricant, the content is NOT sufficient to effect lubrication and cleaning of the GBB – it’s only there to serve as an extra dose of “protection” during normal use/cycling of the pistol’s mechanical components. You MUST perform routine oil lubrication as well as cleaning with supplemental silicone oil to effect complete and proper protection of your replica.
Apply anything from 5 to 35 grade/weight silicone oil to any area specified in the GBB’s manual. Again, I know that it’s most likely in Chinese or Japanese, but still, there should be enough figures and illustrations to point you in the right direction, should you read carefully. Additionally, make sure you apply the lubricant to any area of the GBB’s internals that may make frictional contact with each other – such as the contact points between the slide and the frame, etc – also, a thin layer should be applied to any and all rubber components. Furthermore, the lubricant, especially of lower viscosity, such as 5 to 10 weight, can easily be used as a cleaning solvent for the bore of the barrel and even as a general cleaning solution .
One item of note is that with the lower weight oils, should you use them in warmer weather, they may “run” excessively. A heavier grade weight, such as between 20 and 35 weight, or even a silicone “grease,” may confer more protection to the slide/frame frictional interfaces. However, keep in mind that such high-viscosity oils or grease may cause “binding” should it start to solidify under extreme-cold conditions. So, as you can see, you must use your own best judgment to select the proper lubricant grade. An IMPORTANT side note is that furthermore, under NO circumstances should you use such viscous oils/grease as a barrel cleaning solvent – you’ll have a very hard time getting your barrel bore and Hop cleared of residual excess oil/grease!!!!
The final item to note is that should you desire to use “substitute” airsoft gasses, such as “computer duster gasses,” you will need to supplement the “dry” gas with a bit of the low weight grade silicone oil to effect lubrication of the magazine and its various seals. The process is well documented in the “Gas Primer.”
In short, This is VERY easily done by dropping one or two drops of silicone oil (or spraying a small amount) directly onto the incoming gas fill nipple at the bottom of the magazine, and subsequently immediately introducing fill gas into the magazine as typical of gas fills.
This process forces the lubricant present at the opening of the nipple into the magazine, and causes sufficient atomization of the lubricant oil into the magazine gas reservoir, which is then spread throughout the GBB during discharge -- just as with "true" proprietary airsoft gasses.

M.S.-ARC:
There's nothing wrong with simply spraying or dropping in a bit of silicone oil at the incoming gas fill port at the bottom of your magazine immediately prior to each fill as I've suggested. If anything, when done properly, it will most likely actually introduce much more than the small percentage of lubricant actually present in the proprietary airsoft gasses. You can even "test" this by visualizing the thin layer of lubricant that forms on the surface of the rubber gas route packing at its exit point at the top of the magazine; it will be as lubricated as with use of true airsoft gasses.
- Remembering that the retailers don’t always have your best interests in-mind
Again, I must emphasize that each GBB, regardless of brand of make, is an individual onto itself. Each individual GBB will have specific performance, durability, reliability, and gas-efficiency characteristics that are unique to that pistol itself, and cannot be generalized to include any other replica pistol. So instead of asking about comparisons in various posts and such, simply sit down, search, and read as much as you can about the replicas that you’re interested in – it’s the only sure way to go.
One important item to note about GBB’s is that regardless of what many retailers may say about their supposed durability – i.e. “x or y model can take a or b gas, straight out of the box” – NO GBB IS IMMUNE TO THE GENERAL LAWS OF MECHANICAL OBJECTS. This means that the more you stress the system, in this case, the GBB, with “higher-powered” gasses, the more likely it is that you will experience some kind of catastrophic mechanical breakage of a critical component, and for sure, you will experience increased wear and tear as compared to a counterpart GBB that’s been treated only to exclusive use of the “lower-powered” gasses.
If you are having a hard time believing me, just think of it this way: race cars.
These things are tuned to provide the most performance with commensurately the most stress placed on their parts – and while they are reliable enough and durable enough for the span of the race, they routinely get full engine and other critical items replaced, many, many times per season due to excessive wear on critical components. Furthermore, they are also much more prone to having a breakdown than our everyday commuter cars. Another example? Think of the “higher-powered” gasses as “nitrous” for your GBB. Sure, you can run your car on nitrous all the time, but I’d be willing to bet that sooner rather than later, you’re going to blow your engine. So please, unless you are a “power hog” and are willing to deal with the consequences of having a broken GBB due to use of the “more powerful” gasses, just stick with HFC134a or the other lower-powered alternatives. Don’t come crying to me later – ‘cause I’ll just say “I told you so!”

Section Three – Mock suppressors (“silencers”)
- AEG Sound Suppression
I've often been sighted on-line lamenting the state of our relative lack of airsoft knowledge -- true objective knowledge -- as Western enthusiasts. After having a look at some of the Japanese airsoft-hobby print magazines, it's quite easy to see that we truly lag behind their objective understanding of "performance," through true objective testing and organized data, by about 5 to 10 years.

And sadly, this applies to the tremendous hype generated about "suppressing" or "silencing" an AEG as well.....at this point, we Western hobbyists have only anecdotal tales and empiric evidence to go on, but it looks like our Far-Eastern brothers have already tired of such guess work and rumor, and decided to take things to the next level.

An article in the a past issue of the Japanese hobbyist magazine Arms (May 2003, issue number 179) detailed a laboratory-test of sound suppression for the P90.

Of course, I could not read Japanese (remember, I'm Chinese!) -- but hey, the graphs and pictures are easy enough to interpret regardless!

For this tech article about "silencing" the P90, they used an aftermarket mock suppressor (looked to be a KSC Knight's Armament Corp. suppressor for the KSC Mk23 Mod0 SOCOM GBB) and even stuffed the mechabox area full of rubber chips and also cotton padding. They also sealed, using tape and even plastics, various "holes" in the mechabox assembly that could emit noise before re-installing the mechabox and supplementing the suppression with the above-cited rubber and cotton insulation.

Result?

53 db. of noise at 50 meters.

Absolute noise reduction at around 35 meters went from a high of 82 db., stock, to -- get this, 80 db. with all of the sound-suppressant.

Not much difference at all, huh?

The true effect shown with their test was apparently from a much greater discrepancy in the frequency of the sounds emitted. This was also documented in graphical form from their testing equipment. The spectrum analysis changed towards a much lower frequency with the sound-suppressing measures installed, with reductions in the higher-frequency noises registered.

This would pretty much confirm the fact that these "suppression" methods would do very little good for our airsoft replicas in terms of having an OBJECTIVE noise-level suppression -- and instead, that it is our subjective inability to pinpoint the altered muzzle discharge noises (frequency change), combined with most likely a re-routing/re-directing of the muzzle discharge noises to be emitted along a different axis (i.e. instead of directly down-range, now more dispersed to either side due to the fact that the mock suppressor is "canning" the barrel), as the TRUE reasons why suppressors "work" for airsoft replicas.

Again, I'm not making this up -- this is from the latest issue of Arms magazine, a hard-core Japanese airsoft enthusiast magazine. Got problems with these findings? Go take it up with them!

What does this all mean for you?

Well, if you are really up-close and personal outdoors, or if you are indoors at all (with highly sound-reflective walls, furniture, etc.), you might as well discount any supposed advantage you have. The objective level of true noise reduction is just insufficient.

Rather, it is outdoors, at-range, where the alteration of the tone and direction of your "suppressed" replica's sound output that will truly give you a tactical advantage.

Use your advantage to GET close, but once you're there, as with much of everything that's airsoft, it is "violence of action" that's going to take the day.
- GBB sound suppression
Most airsoft GBB replicas will have aftermarket products designed to allow them attach aftermarket mock suppressors.

However, they will not affect much at all of your overall noise signature.

Why?

Do this simple test with your GBB - any GBB.

First, gas-up your GBB.

DO NOT, I repeat, do *_- NOT -_* load with BBs.

Instead only "gas-fire" the replica, placing the slide "ejection port" cut out next to your ear. Trigger off a round.

If your ear isn't ringing, I'll print out this FAQ and eat it.

Unless you can physically "lock" your slide and keep it from cycling, you'll get that gas-output noise from the magazine main outlet area right next-to/within the "ejection port/breech" each and every time, whether you have a mock suppressor on the muzzle or not.

If you want a truly "sound suppressed" gas-operated replica, look towards the purchase of a NBB as your starting platform.

GBBs just won't do it. Physically impossible.

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