Michigan Airsoft
Michigan Airsoft => Airsoft Discussion => Topic started by: m4everybody on October 02, 2016, 11:31:55 PM
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Hey everyone, I've been checking out the crazy new M4's that have hitting the market. Right now, the Krytac M4 line has been exploding in popularity and for good reason. But the new Salient Arms GRY ( i believe OEM by G&P) looks pretty top of the line. A little ways back could be the EMG Hellbreaker (new model Ares M4) which has a built in mosfet, a great addition to stock AEG's. The new VFC's have mosfets as well, and APS (believe it or not) actually seems to be stepping up their game and designing some really cool looking weapons, like their new ASR M4 line.
The general consensus of the new technologies and innovations is more performance out of stock guns than ever before, but there a good hand full of decent options and i was wondering what is the new top dog on the market in terms of quality, performance, reliability, and any other aspects you can think of?
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Krytac hands down. They have the most, best parts in their platforms, even in their Alpha line, they shoot phenomenally.
While G&Ps are very solid performers, the only real things they have change up is their externals. Though one thing G&P has been doing right for some time, is coming standard with Deans connectors.
Ares have been changing and trying new and different things with their systems and guns, but from the things I've worked on, they are still not all that fantastic. Most of their mosfet systems that are programmable, require a separately sold programming unit. And the mosfets themselves aren't exactly the most robust. More robust than the G&G ETU from what I've seen though. And Ares still has their weak points I'm their mechanical system such as their bushings and the over all proprietary design of the shell and mosfet.
VFC is indeed stepping up their game as of late. They have mosfets in the same general location as in the Krytac, though with their standard shell with a little modification. A basic mosfet, which I haven't had too much experience with their longevity, but I imagine they should be just fine. They also tried to improve their piston and tappet plate material. While better than before, they are both still the weak points in the system. But overall a great platform, VFC is known for phenomenal externals and solid performance.
As for APS, they have had rough beginnings and have improved, but I cannot say too much as I haven't had much experience with their more recent stuff. Some of which, I must agree, looks really cool. But on an internal and performance level, I don't know.
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Well I haven't handled much for the newer fancier M4's but I have seen a couple recent APS guns on the field and bench lately. I also own my stubby which is based on an APS. Overall I've been pretty impressed overall. The externals were pretty dang good, solid feel not cheap, internals weren't super but weren't bad either. Shimming was so so but that's the case on most stock China guns. Basically should run a long time at stock levels, if you go in to change the sprng etc, might not be a bad idea to tighten up compression and do the normal tweaks. I will say the mosfet had a weird bit or two, it drew down my battery very quickly. IE if I left a lipo in the gun it would run it dead in a week or so without shooting. Where some mosfets have a draw this one was higher than any of my others by allot. And at some point it fried, not sure what happened since I just cut it out and replaced it with one I built myself.
But I will say I'm pretty sure left stock it would have gone quite a ways but I have a hard time leaving a gun stock, generally I'm in there doing some level of tweaking. Oh and the slightly newer than my version also have a QC spring gearbox which honestly seemed like a pretty dang good design as well, and I feature I wish mine had;)
Luke
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Krytac hands down. They have the most, best parts in their platforms, even in their Alpha line, they shoot phenomenally.
While G&Ps are very solid performers, the only real things they have change up is their externals. Though one thing G&P has been doing right for some time, is coming standard with Deans connectors.
Gotta be careful with this. I've received several G&Ps wired to standard deans, but also one wired to micro-deans (WTF?). I've also owned ones that were wired to tamiyas, but that was quite a while ago.
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I have seen each of those, just be sure to read the description carefully, and hopely where you are buying from sends you the right thing. But as far as I know, no other brand sells their guns with deans.
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From what I've been reading CA has been shipping with deans on their new guns, with an adapter, but native deans. Not sure on other current brands. I never worried too much about that since I've got deans, solder and shrink handy so that's the first mod to any gun I get in my hands;)
Luke
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That's right, I forgot about Classic Army's newer stuff, which are supposed to also have mosfets if I recall correctly.
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I believe they do have mosfets installed from the get go, but I haven't handled them in person. That said I always have had a soft spot for CA guns, not sure why but I've made some dang good shooting guns from them over the years;)
Luke
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Krytac hands down. They have the most, best parts in their platforms, even in their Alpha line, they shoot phenomenally.
While G&Ps are very solid performers, the only real things they have change up is their externals. Though one thing G&P has been doing right for some time, is coming standard with Deans connectors.
You mentioned Krytac's Alpha line. What exactlt is the difference between the Alpha and Trident series. They are very close in price. And they have a $500 line with cerekote finishes, are those simply trident m4's with and external finish or is there some sort of performance upgrade?
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Alphas have a different motor, spring, grip, and something else from the trident series.
The upgraded finishes are only different in finish, the internals are standard trident internals.
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Alphas have a different motor, spring, grip, and something else from the trident series.
The upgraded finishes are only different in finish, the internals are standard trident internals.
Thanks Pagan!
On another thought, how bout that good old KWA? I don't doubt KWA quality or performance but with these new innovations from other manufacturers, what is KWA doing to keep up with the changing market?
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As far as I know, KWA hasn't made many/any improvements in the recent past. They don't have mosfets, yet everyone claims them to be "11.1 ready". They have fairly tight tolerances, as they pretty much always have, but I haven't been too up to date with them since their ERG. But what I have worked on, I highly prefer the other brands over KWA. 2 piece hop ups suck, especially with no aftermarket support.
EDIT:
And yeah, Krytac's Alpha line is more geared towards the Asian markets and other places where FPS limits are upwards of 300. I was just working on one the other day. Just like Pagan said, different motor, different grip, different spring, but practically everything else is about the same.
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I always thought KWAa were "11.1 ready" because they had gold trigger contacts. As well as having half ass tuned guns and good parts for their time.
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I always thought KWAa were "11.1 ready" because they had gold trigger contacts. As well as having half ass tuned guns and good parts for their time.
Nothing is 11.1 ready without a mosfet. And KWA has fairly tight tolerances internally. Thus the tuning is as it is, and limits the adjustment to things like the motor height.
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Kwa isn't really doing anything special anyway in terms of externals either. Even if Krytac is superior, I love G&P's designs on some of their m4. Pretty sexy rifles in my opinion. But, all the features of a gun like that of the Krytac m4, really make it a hard to pass up option.
On another note, I'd like to ask you guys what you would like to see come next in guns or what integrations that could be made. My opinion, i dont even get a company doesn't make hop up upgrades like Flat Hop, or r hop, out of the box. The only thing i can think of would be that they already have the buckings, nubs, and other stuff made for stock hop ups and just dont want to spend money in changing that. Although, i think if a company did that, it would put the spotlight on them and boost sales. The closest i can think of is the krytac's hop up. They have a special "w" hop up correct? If so, how does that compare to a flat hop or r hop?
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I used to always recommend that people buy a gun for its externals and features that they like, and the internals can always be modified, tuned and improved upon. Krytac has some selection of externals, but the internals, aside from one or two things are on the same level as many upgrades.
G&P has all sorts of external configurations and options, pick and choose to your liking. They are usually a little cheaper, so they allow a little leeway for upgrades. In general, it's just a lot cheaper to buy a rifle with the majority of the externals you want than trying to rebuild it by piecing every specific part together.
For improvements for companies to include from the start, I would love to seem more companies include Neo magnet motors and O-ring nozzles. Some stock guns have buckings that have a split mound, so essentially 2 points of contact. The Krytac bucking is a little more than the "W" hold. It's pretty much a split (split in the middle) with splits on each side of the central split. So 4 points of contact as opposed to 3 with a "W" or 2 with a split, or 1 with a classic stock design.
A flat hop to come standard would be nice, and much more realistic than an R-hop. R-hops are just too unique each install to each barrel. Flat hops are a little more generalized and can be easily accomplished just by sourcing a different bucking manufacture, or changing to moundless buckings one way or the other, along with sourcing some sort of flat nub.
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I used to always recommend that people buy a gun for its externals and features that they like, and the internals can always be modified, tuned and improved upon.
Yeah, that's great advice. I don't know how much time and money I spent in earlier years modifying the hell out of the exterior of my AEGs.
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Well with what I'm hearing the krytac sound like one of those mythical buy it and play forever with guns. I know some people love workin on guns, me ehhhhhhhh I get bored because lack of skill. So something like that sounds right up my alley.
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I've been battling over buying a Krytac LVOA ever since they came out! But I just couldn't ever justify the price tag when I've got around $500 wrapped up in my current M4 setup I've built myself. This thread isn't helping any haha! A LVOA might be in my tax return future.
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I think some of the Krytac are actually on sale now at Evike. I'm trying to decide if I want to keep buying cheap guns, or buy a nice Krytac. Buy once cry once right?
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I believe I saw someone post that Air Rattle was having a sale on Krytacs as well.
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Actually I just seen a LVOA bundle for sale with 10 mags included on Evike. Must resist... :o
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Ya the package is $430. Only 5 dollars more than the gun by it self. Btw anyine know what the LVOA stands for
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Low Visibility Operations Application.
Do I win a prize?
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Is that true? Cause if so. What is the application?
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War Sport Industries' (WSI) proprietary Low-Visibility Operations Application (LVOA) rail system/forend rail tube that extends all the way up to the muzzle, specifically over and under it.