The only thing I would question there is the size of the community, I don't have the numbers and I wasn't back yet during that 2008ish time frame. But from what I've seen in the member numbers etc, it looks like the community as a whole may have been bigger back then than it is today combining forum numbers along with facebook. That of course doesn't include more break off groups etc on facebook which could easily account for the different feel of the community.

I do agree though that the loss of the fields mentioned certainly effected MIA and airsoft within Michigan. And not to degrade the conversation into MSW/LC discussion. But I think at the end of the day that whole incident and following controversy hurt airsoft as a whole. It drove further division I think between players and who they were supporting by attending games. And I completely understand the guys who picked one side or the other, but I think putting players in a position where they have to pick is going to hurt both sides and isn't going to help airsoft grow as a hobby. But time frame wise that also occurred during this same stretch of decline and I do think that played a role. It came at a bad time to have a big issue within the community, and it was also an issue earlier with Blacksheep as well and that whole controversy.

The one place I'm not sure I agree maybe I do but I'm torn is on REC games. I think of REC and scenario games as two independent things. Within a very small community of players sure they will draw guys from one to the other, particularly I think REC players will be less likely to go to a scenario game if they are just used to REC games. But I don't think it goes the other direction, if you typically play scenario games and you've got the choice between that and REC I think most guys will go scenario. I do think REC games can give a good introduction to more serious play, and sometimes be used for another step of scenario or milisim lite types of games to let guys decide if they would like to take it to the next step.

I think another thing though with milsim/scenario/anything more in depth than a rec game is making sure to educate the community about the game itself and it's requirements. Just as an example and not a great one but an example none the less. When I went down to Irene first large scale game I've been to, first time anything more than a local game since I've been back. I researched, posted, asked questions and generally tried to find any information I could to be prepared. I also then passed all that to my guys I was bringing with so we were all up to speed. We still missed some things, and we still could have done better. That wasn't a crazy intense game as far as what was needed etc, but the information was way harder to find than I think is practical. I'm a research junkie, and if it weren't for me I don't honestly think most of my guys would have found allot of the minor stuff needed etc. Since there is also variation in the hosts, that requires different gear etc. That's something I think could really be improved with allot of hosts of more in depth games. Insure the players know exactly what to bring and what is needed for the game, otherwise some guys will just think it's too difficult to figure out and may not attend when otherwise they could. And I can't speak for all games, but I have researched games other than Lion Claws over the years and run into some of the same headaches.

So I think getting that information out there and easy to process for new players to that particular host/series/events, would be a big help to the community as well as drawing in new players to those games. Possibly even as simple as youtube videos explaining rules and such(which to their credit LC did do some of, but it was far too few, and too little information).

That though at least from my perspective would be a huge help to new players of that particular host, especially if they don't have players near them to be able to bounce questions off of. As well when you ask some of those questions you get replies like "oh that doesn't really matter". And while that may be true, maybe they don't enforce that rule in particular but it's good to know the "goal" rather than the accepted standard of play so to speak. And as it stands often times it's very confusing for most players who haven't attended that sort of event in the past to figure out the details and get all their ducks in a row before showing up to play.

Luke

Another thing you can do to test of sorts is run on a timer and see what it shakes out to be, speed wise. Most of the shot timer apps will pick up the noise and you can get some data to see what the difference is in use as well. I know I used that testing things with holster design in the past and it led to some interesting results. More than anything though it was interesting to see data to show a difference.

Just as an example my draw from concealment changed depending on hand placement. If I hang my hand with thumb on the rear pocket of my jeans I can drop a good .3 seconds off my draw time compared to hands in front. That led me in situations when we traveled when I felt things just weren't right to start putting my thumb on my rear pocket of my jeans in those cases. Never needed it mind you, but my wife also knew so if she saw me do that, which wasn't an odd movement other than it wasn't typical for me. She knew I had seen something that raised my neck hair so to speak;) But it's interesting to find those little things that make a difference. And while a third of a second isn't allot of time in airsoft or real firearms it can be a huge difference in actual time to action and changing the outcome especially at close range etc.

Either way just something to think about and fiddle with that I've noticed over the years;) And for other guys reading this, I'm no secret squirrel guy. Just a normal guy that probably thinks about things differently than allot of folks, but I've also been deeply involved in firearms for years now;)

Luke

I will say this, years ago like 15 years ago;) When I started playing we all used iron sights, we were new players and didn't have much budget for optics. It was a pretty level playing field, all running stock TM guns, all iron sights. I picked up a BSA red dot, nothing special got it in a trade I believe at the time. I slapped that on my M16A2 and all of a sudden I was ahead of the action curve just slightly, fractions of a second faster. And it was enough that almost immediately everyone else had a red dot because they almost needed them to compete. Not to say you couldn't run without but there was an advantage if you both got to guns at the same time and it was noticeable especially in that small scale of guys who played each other every weekend and knew each other's actions like the back of their hand. I don't think it's as noticeable in larger games etc, but I do believe it's still there.

Now that said after that I didn't start chasing the best optic, but I did keep it in the back of my mind. And as a result virtually all my guns over the years have carried some sort of red dot or scope, but typically for airsoft ranges a red dot. And it's actually driven my dislike for a few guns like my MP5's because even more than the red dot I've found certain sights just don't work as well or fast for me. MP5's and HK sights on the whole tend to be slower for me, could just be my own whatever and what I'm used to. But I've tried, and I'm still slow on them, put a dot on there and it's pretty much equal.

The idea of an independent option to get long distance looks isn't a bad one at all, I've considered it myself but typically I think the times it would make the most sense for me is when I'm sniping. And in those cases I pretty much always have a scope that will go around 9x anyways and it's allot easier than carrying another piece of gear.

Either way I'm curious what you find because I think optics are one of those things that can be important for airsoft as a whole, sure you can get by without them. But it's interesting to see their effects on play as well. And I think despite the fact that airsoft isn't a great training analog for real firearms some lessons do cross over quite well. And the speed you can acquire a target and shoot is one of them.

Take care!

Luke

Nice I've been curious since I got back into airsoft how some of these newer GBB systems were working for guys. I know in our colder climate GBB is often frustrating during the colder months, but I've always felt the realism compared to AEG platforms was just such a cool addition;)

Maybe in the future I'll have to pick up a GBB AR platform to play around with and see how I like it;)

Luke

I think at the end of the day the biggest thing we all as a community need to do is reach out to a degree to players and be accepting of what other guys do for fun within the hobby. Everyone that plays airsoft gets different things from it and enjoys it differently.

And I think to that end it's going to require boots on the ground so to speak at events getting to know guys and trying to get guys involved in the community as a whole.

Also no matter where the community ends up(while I do think there is a strong case for forums, especially because of search and indexing). I think we need to do more things to involve the community. One suggestion I made before was AAR's after action reports. Basically a BS session about a game or a particular kill in the game. But those types of things are not only fun, but they engage guys who weren't even at the game. And if other guys see that a bunch of guys had fun they wonder what they missed out on and may make more of an effort to go to the next game.

To be honest we're all in the same boat to a degree. As players you want to go to a game with the right amount of players. If you design a game for 50 guys and 10 show up, it's hard to make that a good game. The hosts need the players as do the fields to drive the financial reasons for doing airsoft. But at the end of the day we all need players no matter their team, and the best way to keep players and by them enjoying themselves playing the game.

Luke

Location: UP Airsoft Channing MI

When: 10-21-2017 11:00-18:00 CST

Facebook event link: https://www.facebook.com/events/145289129406659/

MAP: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Adams+Holsters/@46.2082177,-88.0897517,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x4d518023f687487b:0xe1b8c96a8873771c

Scenario:

As winter approaches, more than just leaves are falling on the Korean peninsula. As nuclear tensions mount between North Korea and the United states and its allies, displays of military power have become commonplace. The US and South Korea are flying numerous bombers and fighters over Pyongyang in ever-increasing frequency while North Korea positions its forces closer and closer to the DMZ. North Korea, growing weary of an impending air attack, secretly plans to shoot down an American bomber in a reckless display of aggression.

North Korea’s plan in downing a US Air Force B-52 proves to be successful, but the plane was coincidentally carrying an unexpected piece of cargo: a high-yield nuclear device. Many times more powerful than anything the secluded country could produce with antiquated Soviet-era technology, the device could completely wipe Seol off the map. The bomber was never supposed to be carrying anything other than conventional ordnance, resulting in the US and South Korean forces being slow to realize the gravity of the situation. By the time the news has spread through military channels, North Korea has already mobilized in an effort to capture whatever the plane was carrying. To make matters worse, the plane went down inside North Korea.

The North Korean Military doesn’t know exactly what was aboard the bomber they shot down. The bomber crashed in an extremely rural area of their homeland, one inaccessible by major roads and too thick with vegetation to safely land an aircraft. So their solution to recover the weapon as well as any technology they can salvage is to mount an expedition to the crash site. Once they secure the weapon, site, and technology they will have to extract with everything to a waiting plane on the tarmac.
 
The US(CIA) and South Korean underground forces need to infiltrate that location and destroy the crash site with a purpose built bomb before it falls into the wrong hands. Once the target is destroyed their cover is blown as a result they need to get back across the border into friendly territory with any intelligence they can recover during the operation.

Rules of Engagement/FPS Limits:

FPS with .2g projectile(calculated based on Joules of energy with the BB weight used) 001-350fps 5ft.    CQB/Assault role, full auto permitted.

FPS Table:
 351-400fps 40ft.    Assault role, full auto permitted.
 401-450fps 60ft.    DMR role, full auto permitted but limited.*
 450-550fps 100ft.    Semi auto or bolt action only.**

Joules Table:
 0.01-1.14 5ft.        CQB/Assault role, full auto permitted.
 1.15-1.49 40ft.        Assault role, full auto permitted.
 1.50-1.88 60ft.        DMR role, full auto permitted but limited.*
 1.89-2.81 100ft.    Semi auto or bolt action only.** 

*DMR Role full auto is permitted, but short bursts only max of 4-5BB’s  per burst.
**Sniper class rifles do not require full auto lock out, however if caught using full auto in game you will be asked to leave and not return. Airsoft is a game based on trust, and I trust this won't be an issue.

Food etc: Food will be available on site, planned Chilli, I do need a headcount on how many guys would like lunch there will be other things to go with it. But it will be $5 a head for lunch, those who aren't familiar with this area, it's remote. As such you will need to either bring lunch, or buy lunch here. There is no place close by to eat especially under the time frame we're going to shoot for with lunch.

Water is available from the house, we will have cups etc but it's always recommended to bring a bottle, or camelback to make sure you're hydrated even in cooler weather.

Approx. timetable:
1000-1100 CST - Chrono and setup for game, loading mags etc.

1100 CST - Scenario 1: Recovery

1400 CST - Break for lunch(this may vary, it's based on the primary objective, also since this is a late lunch you should probably eat breakfast before coming)

1430-1500 - Scenario 2: Extraction

1700 - This is also up in the air, depends on how long scenario 2 takes to complete, if it ends quickly and guys are willing we may do some basic pickup games afterwards. But typically that's not the case.

So I've opened up some storage for images on the site. We always ran that quite limited but I've opened it to around 2mb per image that can be directly attached to a post. You also can attach images via Tapatalk when doing it that way it actually uploads the image to their servers instead.

So I'd recommend trying to use this rather than the "Add image to post" link that hosts them off site for a little while more of a trial. And we'll see how it effects the site and hosting. But I think it's going to be just fine and should make it a little easier to post photos.

Additionally, you'll see more of these posts. Prior to our conversations on Facebook and here I had already been planning to roll out a bunch of new stuff for the site. Just was waiting on time to do it, so I'll be changing some things. Making mobile browsing a little easier and generally trying to improve the user experience. If someone out there reading this has experience with SMF(Simple Machines Forums) and would like to make suggestions for plugins etc that they would like to see feel free to shoot me a note. If you don't have experience there you're still always welcome to make suggestions it just may not be possible to implement within the framework.

Take care!

Luke

So guys I enabled a function tonight where you can tie your MIA account to your google or facebook account. Allowing you to login with either one directly to your MIA account. So if you're on your phone logged into facebook or google you can click login in the browser and use those credentials to login. You can also register accounts that way as well.

If you've already got an account you can go to your profile and add them to your existing account as another way to login. Basically it's using those sites for authentication. Very much the same as allot of places are using these days, but it gives you another easy option to register and use the site without keeping another password.

Keep me posted if you run into any issues at all with it.

Take care!

Luke